Coffee Plantation: what 's the story : AZ IMC

This was just publshed a few days ago in ASU's student newspaper, the State Press. Agree or disagree, think it makes some interesting points, and in some ways goes into more detail than did one of our local dailies...

http://www.asuwebdevil.com/news/2004/04/19/Opinions/Coffee.Debacle.Stunts.Progress.For.Homeless-664307.shtml

(I kinda have to agree their point about trashed restrooms - have seen it myself, & it can't imagine it helps the situation)

Contrary to what the article says, the writers never contacted Elizabeth Venable and never allowed her to express an alternate viewpoint.

This was written in response to a conversaton between Lucia Bell and E. Venable 1 week ago when E. Venable criticized L. Bell's article about cell phones. The letter was printed in the State Press last Tuesday.

I also have got to ask why you never posted anythign about any of the 30 or so articles about the FTC until this one came up. Were you sitting and waiting for the first negative one?

You're making a big assumption accusing me of waiting to post the first negative article about FTC. I've attended FTC events, had friends who got canned or quit coffee plantation...and I'm the one who posted the e-mail info for CP's district manager so people could send complaints directly to him.

As I said before, think this article raises some interesting points, which I hoped people would respond to. Waited a couple of days for someone else to post this on IMC, then figured it wasn't going to happen. All of the other 30 or so FTC events have all been posted here. I believe in an open dialogue.

So, I am interested in comments pro or con about specific items in the op-ed piece...but not about the cell-phone conversation. There's no way to prove whether or not that had anything to do with the FTC piece. I support FTC & its activities...but no group should be immune to or expempt from criticism. So, I'm looking forward to what others have to say about the issues raised in the article...

When ever an Activist group in the Valley is "Out In The Streets",like FTC group,there is no follow up action.The opportunity was totally blown during winter/spring Protesters of FTC because it was election season in Tempe & no word at all from all the candidates(Mayor & City Council)about your Protests & Issues..The next step would of been the FTC folks go to the debates & contact every single candidate running for office,both Mayor & city Council,for their opinion/action on your issue.

RE: open-minded: Maybe you should open your eyes, as well as your mind.

That article was clearly one-sided and passively attack FTCC. I've seen more objective, honest journalism from a pile of shit.

I fail to see the 'interesting points' you claim are in the article. As for the enlightened bathroom epiphany you seem to have discovered- take a look in any bathroom, in any store, all along Mill and beyond, and most likely it'll look like a shitstorm flew through.
Because that's what happens in bathrooms. Shitstorms happen in bathrooms, and people have to clean themselves up. I recommend using that issue of The State Press if all the toilet paper has been stolen by dirty homeless subversives. Maybe then that article willl have some purpose other than to allow an inexperienced freshmen journalist the opportunity to mislead the college community about an important social issue, and a group like FTC..

I'm not a member of FTC, but I've been to a few of their demonstrations and events. They exhibit courage and forsight, as well as thoughtful *strategy*. To claim that Elizabeth declined talking about this issue is actually a very clear indication that the journalist knows very little of her, or FTC in general. To quote Gandhi(which insults him to use his words more as an offense than a gift) in order to tell FTC to 'do' more and 'talk' less... well, once again, that demostrates to me, and probably anyone else who knows Elizabeth and FTC, that the author/journalist doesn't have a clue about either.

Anyway, Liz and FTC- keep on doing what you're doing- FUCK the State Press and their amateur writers.. don't get discouraged. I really don't have all the facts about this 'Jesse' person, but from what I've seen, you're ambitions are very honorable. Thank you, and we'll see you on the streets!

I've spent lots of time in coffee plantation and have seen many many homeless use the restrooms, so please don't tell me they don't contribute heavily to trashing 'em. Just because I support FTC & homeless rights, doesn't mean I support every single thing homeless folks on Mill do. Cleaning yourself up doesn't have to mean fucking up the restroom. It's been awhile, but I seem to recall in the past that CP owners/mgt negotiated a workable agreement on homeless/restroom use that seemed to work prett well for all parties.

Guess you missed this part of my note in your rush to judge me...but I said I also support FTC & homeless rights on Mill. That does NOT mean that I simplemindedly agree with everything they do. Supporting someone's rights does not mean I condone asshole behavior...from preppies, fratboys, homeless, or activists.

Also, if you'll read to the end of the State Press report, you'll see attached a letter that DOES criticize the piece. And I've yet to see anyone here on IMC actually address the issues raised in the state press, just repeated cries of "unfair, biased."

If elizabeth venable had her chance to respond or comment, what would she say? THAT'S what I'd like to read. Think she'd have some good points to make.

As for "bias" -- if the state press had unreservedly praised FTC (and if you bother to really read it, they do support FTC in some ways in the story) the article would've been posted here about 5 minutes after it appeared in print...

i recently wrote a letter to them but they changed it to seem like i never wanted to protest. they fucked up iam here with the ftc's help to make sure those asswhole get what they deserve coffe plant is lucky i dont take alternative actions on them maybe then the brain dead and globaly dumbed down people would give a shit about what we are doing.
fuck the state press fuck coffee plant and most of ALL FUCK BUSH! i have been doing alot of research about what is going on in the world i wonder if any of you go to this web site above top secret.com and the ats news network they have check it out and it will really open your eyes globaly.

It does seem to me as if FTC chose a poor target for this action.

what do you mean a poor target. a pissed off vet is not a poor target. i agree with him they are lucky that is is being calm and collected my father just returned home a couple of weeks ago he heard this story and he wants to take coffee plantation out. i dont know about you but as my father tells me vets, soldiers ex soldiers all tend to stick together. i sure as hell wouldent want a bunch of pissed off vets going after me guess well just have to wait and see how this one turns out

Number 1: There have been many positive editorials about the Free to Camp Campaign in the State Press. We choose to publish them on our website as opposed to AZ Indymedia. For example, the unsigned editorial the Manday after the protest all but called for an explicit boycott. This is apparent when one makes just a cursory inspection of the Free to Camp page.

Number 2: The article does not very substantially criticize the target of the action. Rather, the article criticizes the method of response. In essence, the sum of the article is that protest is a method of social change that is totally worthless and that social service campaigns or groups wield the only worthy methods of homeless action. This was further made clear in responses to letter writers from Lucia Bill and others.

Number 3: The FTCC does not consider Coffee Plantation's banning of and refusal of service to easily over thirty people in two months to be an inappropriate offense to highlight. This is especially the case as such bans seem to be made almost entirely on the basis of appearance. I literally witnesses women being arrested and taken to jail for the crime of walking on the Centerpoint sidewalk *trespassing*, and not even being in the Coffee Plantation store. I thus do not see this as an issue unworthy of protest!

The FTCC believes it is important to not the criminalization of walking and shopping while homeless.

As to the controversial information presented in the article, all it was previously presented on the FTCC website (such as the incident of assault). No new information that we have not already presented to the public and cced to Theresa James is in the article. This is the most ironic point: they basically took information we presented, took the most unfavorable points (that the FTCC was open and honest about), and posted it as "news." Thus, we have already responded to the information in a public fashion by commenting on it (our information) within our own documents, which are up on the website. We don't feel the need to respond to our own information again! They then basically implied that the information that the FTCC was getting out to the community was delivered in an inappropriate fashion (protest-bad, etc.).

My question is, "Would the State Press Cover a teach-in or movie night? Would they cover other non-protest events?" The answer is, generally, unlikely, although this is not definatively so, because they have written about, for example, our petition of 1200 signatures. However, this is the only non-protest covereage we have recieved. The State Press perpetuates the protest cycle, as do all media. Protests are essentially media events in most cases. The writers of the editorial do not seem to understand this.

The point of Indymedia is to be the ONLY source of TRUE news in the Valley & else where,to bypass State Press,Tribune,Repub,& corporate TV news,that the weak in the Valley go to..If the Activists in the Valley & elsewhere in Arizona get off their fucking butt & be TRUE Journalist,the public will be better informed!

We also publish AZ Indymedia coverage as an independant source on the FTCC website. We do not feel the need to post the State Press Coverage and editorials to AZ Indymedia because AZ Indymedia generally has its own coverage of our events.

Maybe I'm completely off-base here, but has anyone actually verified that Jesse is really a vet at all, much less an army ranger with Iraq combat experience? Something about him just kind of rings alarm bells, in my opinion. Did any of the journalists covering the story bother to verify any of history. "Fake veterans" are pretty common. Hell, Duke Tully, former AZ Republic publisher, faked it bigtime. So don't tell me that it can't happen to the State Press, AZ Republic, or FTCC.

any one who wishes to see my dd214 just say so and i will let you have a copy to verify or if need be i can give the name and number to my doctor at the va or show you my va card or military id lool i even have pictures of of when i was in iraq and of me and my training unit if you want to see them email me and we can meet on mill or i can give them to the ftcc to get rid of all doubts. but i am not a man to lie about my service a service in wich i take great pride in so to even hint that you think i have never served offends me. but i will show proof if needed

No, the FTCC did not ask Jesse for identification "proving" his story. The members of the FTCC are not generally in the business of asking for identification. I know that activists are not generally asked to show identification in order to be allowed to participate and to be respected. Similarly, I have been quoted in well over ten newspapers and magazines, ranging from Curve Magazine to the Washington Post to the Arizona Republic, and I have never once been asked to show identification to verify my identity. The FTCC tends to take the consistent stories of individuals at face value, especially where there is previous verificaiton (such as the article released just following Jesse's term of service in a local Arizona paper).

If Jesse says that he is a veteran, the FTCC will believe that he is a veteran.

Also, the point is not whether people are "real" or not.The point is that the discrimination is real.

Do you really need tangible proof of identity to sympathize with someone who was discriminated against for no solid reason?

This may be slightly off topic, but I'm concerned by the way that "FTCC" and "I" (presumably Venable) are often used interchangably in FTCC postings, documents and letters. Is FTCC just one person? What sort of internal democratic processes are in place so that those who post under FTCC are accountable to the group (assuming there is one) when they do so? Are responsibilities and spotlight shared democratically or are the same people/person making decisions and representing the group in public?

I also am a bit troubled by the implications of playing up of Jesse's veteran status, which I understand might be expedient in today's reactionary political climate, but I really couldn't care less whether he was a soldier in Iraq with regards to his being refused rights that, in my opinion, he is due as a human being, veteran or not. In fact, truth be known, I'm bit troubled by his statement about wanting to fight "a million wars" if he had to for America, not leastly because I'm against the imperialist occupation of Iraq.

Personally, I think the hitching of his veteran status to this issue is a mistake in terms of the larger picture (i.e., beyond his particular case). After all, not all homeless folks are veterans, so gains made on those grounds would not necessarily translate into gains for non-veteran homeless and, ironically, could require veterans to provide ID so as to distinguish themselves from the rest of the homeless population, something it seems like FTCC doesn't want, if it's statements on the issue remain consistent.

Finally, with regard to the target being good or not, what is Border's policy with regard to allowing homeless folks to use their bathroom? I never have a problem, but then I'm not homeless. If, as I suspect, Borders is not too keen on homeless folks using their facillities, then that would be a great target that perhaps even companies like CP, who have been on Mill for quite a while could get behind.

It seems to me that a good strategy would be to split up the presumed unanimity amongst Mill-area merchants with regards to these issues. Hitting Borders over CP could start that process, whereas hitting CP would seem only to cause CP to stay in the fold and solidify opposition to FTCC positions. A split between the Mill newcomers who drive up rents and what's left of the older joints on and around Mill seems like a natural fissure to exploit.

There are of course more people than E. Venable in the FTCC. However, as we don't make collective decisions as to what goes up on the indymedia, and as everyone assumes that it is me in any case, i don't really see the issue. The FTCC is not quite as consensus based as, for example, PAC, but the FTCC also places no limitations on who can use the name and each member is allowed to do whatever they like using the name in general. We all act autonomously as opposed to collectively and don't have to get approval of our actions.

People know when they are members and when they are allowed to use the name internally and justly. I am the FTCC, godless is the FTCC, xregenerationx is the FTC, kateland is the FTC, etc. So they are the FTCC and, yes, I am the FTCC.

Similarly, neither "the FTCC" nor I control Jesse's actions or statements. Jesse was already holding his own protests and had already been interviewd by the media before we showed up to help him. You seem to assume that we are engineering his campaign. His campaigns and ours are different but we work together. We do not agree with everything he says. we are not trying to control him. he can do whatever he wants. I suppose you would have me dictate to him?

Also, the issue with the coffee plantation is not the bathrooms, although they are a part of the issue. The issue is denial of service. We have clear and solid proof of dicrimination in the case of coffee plantation. we do not have this for borders. I don't think that your strategy, B. T., would be effective at all. Also we don't really have the manpower to take on every single business that has ever been unfriendly to homeless people. We are trying to take on those businesses that have a practice of having homeless people arrested for virtually nothing and cause severe disruption.

You of course could work on it yourself. However, since I know that you wouldn't, i won't look out for that.

Yes..."discrimination is real." But not everyone's story is. And truth matters. So pardon me for asking. If I'm wrong, I'll apologize. Jesse, could you just list a few items here --in public -- what units you served with, your commanding officer, that kind of thing? I did read the Eastern AZ Courier story, and it seemed very free of any specifc details, though that could have been the reporter's fault. And although you say in your state press piece that you're shipping out again...can't say when, but the CP folks better talk to you "soon," the Courier article states that you are suffering severely from post traumatic stress syndrome, and also from being shot in the back by an M16; that in November you were awaiting a hearing regarding receiving a medical discharge. The article says "the battle in Iraq is behind him..."

So, what's the deal? I do not want a private meeting somewhere with you -- you've stated lots of stuff publicly, and I'm asking you to respond publicly.

To FTCC: It's your business whether you ask someone to verify their credentials or not. Sometimes you should. I'm more interested in why reporters apparently didn't do some basic homework. I also find it ironic that Jesse in his state press piece seems definitely not sympathetic to the homeless. And in these hyperpatriotic times I just find it very odd that any business would refuse service to *anyone* who's obviously a soldier...

I think that @ guy referenced Jesse MacBeth as a homeless veteran --- don't think that's true, at least according to earlier stories. They report that he's a "fully employed and housed" veteran. The November Courier story says that at that time he was living in Pima with "family friends and a fiance."

To the best of my knowledge, Jesse is not homeless. However, he has many formerly and currently homeless very good friends.

well, if jesse's not homelss, then what is his connection to the ftcc cause and why did they take it up? is it just b/c he is a veteran, or just b/c he knows homeless peeps? seems to me that discrimination against veterans on mill is a different issue for ftcc if it's not about the c(amping) part of the f(ree), especially if it's not about access. explanation, please?

So -- where's all that proof that Jesse was offering to provide? Where's Jesse? Any further comments form the FTCC? Awfully quiet out there in victimized vet-land.

Jesse is not homeless.

Jesse was asked to leave because of his appearance.

Jesse was thus discriminated against by the Coffee Plantation in the same manner as the homeless of Mill were.

Thus, the FTCC is working with him.

Make sense?

The late response comes as the FTCC is no longer reading this thread. Any further questions that need to be answered by the FTCC can be answered at freetocamp@bust.com . Please do not expect us to monitor old threads ad infinatum.

And of course the question not being dealt with -- how much of Jesse's story is true? Guess that doesn't matter just 'cause he's on "our" side, does it?

Umm, only Jesse can answer your questions. I don't know if he is reading this website all the time. The Free to Camp people gave a straight response as to why they work with him. He was discriminated against. What is your beef?

I bet that the Free to Camp people don't care that he was discrimianted against BECAUSE HE IS A SOLDIER. I think thye only care that he was discriminated against and are mostly working with him because he was working on it as well, not BECAUSE HE IS A SOLDIER. Get over it.

Also it is really funny that you keep going on about this because you are posting totally anonymously. Why does someone have to be accoountable to you directly if they don't even know who they are being held accountable to?

i dont have much time to post things on the computer i am being shipped back out next i was called back to service. as for my unit i am in the 82 ab 5 th rnger div i trained in ft being georgia my ex our lt kernal lewis and capt darrishaw. i dont hav alot of time to mess around the computers so ia m sry if i cant respond. it strange to me but it seems only the dead soldiers get honnored for the service and the ones who come back alive dont nothing but suspicion we dont do fight wars for honnor leave our familes and friends to go possiably die ina forign country to be famouse our glorifyed we do it becouse it is our job and we love our country. so as for u all who who believe i am lying i could care less about it. i got alot better things to do then worrying about who believes i am a vet or not . the reason why i protested against coffee platation is the fact they booted me off for being in uniform when i started standing at the corner with the sighn others who were done wrong by coffee plant came forward. i am not homeless but i understand what those homeless kids out there go through everyday how people look at them and treat them because are less fortunate alot of them our my friends i give them what ever help i can. my reason for protesting wasent for the homeless it was to try and get coffe plant to change we have enough hate in the world we dont need anymore here. alot of u probably were at the coffe protest and marched along side me and everything was gravy but as soon as someone says maybe he not a ve or maybe coffee pplant never kicked him off its funny to watch how many people change sides. e. vendable and the ftcc did wonders to help me in the coffee plant protest and i cant thank them enough. despite what others may say about me or think i am vet i did get kicked out of coffe plant because i was in uniform and i will stand by that. it u all want further proof then why dont u all come to sky harbor airport and wish me and some other soldiers farwell next thursday 4am if anything u can talk to several people in my unit there if u have further questions email me and if i have time befor i go i will answer them
sry for the spelling and grammer and shit in a bit of a hurry

Jesse, you're *barely* literate. I don't believe you could pass any literacy test given by the military, and I hope they check you again.

'Ranger division'? Did I get that correct? I fukkin hope not.

If you're message was *any indication at all* of your mental capacity, then I think we should all feel a bit nervous about handing you a gun and pointing you in any direction.

You need someone to sit down with you, maybe your mommy, and read you the Geneva Convention rules. Please, do this before you go. As we can all see lately, it's important that our soldiers understand that when you're sent in to 'liberate' Iraqis from a group of assholes who torture and kill them indiscriminately, we should *at least* not go over there and torture and kill them indiscriminately.

He apologized for his grammer and such in advance. It is just straight up nasty and extremely classist to criticize him for it. You completely erode any points you might have had when you insult people like that.

also note
by silly (same silly as above) Thursday, May. 06, 2004 at 3:50 PM

That you are posting an an anonymous spineless worm whereas he is posting publicly. I somehow think that erodes any crdibility you might have had, and it makes you look like a loser that can't criticize in public.

WOW.

You guys are heros, tired and silly. You sure showed me the error of my ways.

How could I have criticized *anything* here on Indymedia? OMG, how on earth did I ever think that being critical of someone's post could be acceptable? WOW, I must have thought I was commenting on indyassholes.org, not indysmiles.org.

Look- here's the bottom line. I would love to be *nice* to everyone. I try to be, as I'm sure most of us do from day to day. But being 'nice' isn't always the way to do what's right. It'd be 'nice' to build Jesse up and tell him he's a hero and an intellectual and a martyr... but the problem with that is that it's FALSE. Yes, he may have served in the military. Right on. But for guy to going on and on about 'honor'.. and not even know how to spell it... I ask you, how much can he really know about honor? Yeah, yeah,.. I understand.. I sound like an ass right now. Too bad. Check out how a few 'misunderstandings' within the military can lead to complete ignorance of Geneva rules and basic human rights. We need more brains behind our fukkin muscle before we blow ourselves to high hell. and I'm not convinced, by his comment anyway, that he's in any condition to be handling dangerous machines like guns or grenades.

So be it.

Well...he did give some vague info about military service, although I thgink the 82nd airborne & army rangers are two separate entities. I could pick up enough info just from the internet to list the small details that he did.

Here's an unanswered question: In the November easterm AZ Courier article, Jesse tells how he's still getting shrapnel taken out of his back, that he was shot in the back from an m-16, suffering from post-t stress syndrome, and waiting to get a medical discharge. NOW...he tells us he's shipping back out again. What's the real story.

And as for the discrimination against vets story...I don't buy it. That was 30 yrs ago during the vietnam war. Not now. Just check the whole orgy of hoopla about Pat Tillman. *No one's* refusing to sell coffee based on veteran status. I think that coffee plantation booted Jesse because they thought he was homeless, NOT because he was a veteran. Can someone give me any real evidence to the contrary. Any CP employees shouting "veterans suck!" or something? I bet not.

So I'm still not convinced...sorry.

It is not that there is an endemic "No Veterans Allowed" atmosphere at Coffee Plantation. However, that doesn't mean that a veteran wasn't discriinated against and that the discrimination wasn't real.

who cares?
by stop going on or say who you are Friday, May. 07, 2004 at 7:47 AM

Who besides Jesse is goign on about his "honor"? I don't think the FTC is going on about it. They just told his story as was told to them. You are extrapolating a lot that isn't there. Plus, when you base your arguments on irrelevant insults, you look like you can't make your points wiothout them. That severely weakens your point. Good job.

I'm in coffee plantation pretty often, and have never detected a "no vets allowed" atmosphere.

Do I think that Jesse was disciminated against? Yes. Because he's a veteran (or claims to be one)? No. More likely because they thought he was homeless. Discriminating against a guy who's a veteran is not the same as discriminating against him *because* he's a veteran. C'mon, what business person in their right mind today would boot somebody due to being a veteran.

The main place I see people discriminating lots against veterans is...right here on IMC...as on the nerverending "Pat Tillman, hero or killbot" discussion dragging on. And guess I've missed the "support our troops" signs at previous FTCC actions, huh?

I still have a faint hope that Jesse will respond to the apparent holes in his story.

And...isn't it also "classist" to assume that only those in the upper/yupster class are or should be capable of spelling correctly??

look u cant talk all u want but all you do is talk. yes, i had sharpnel removed from my back and if your dumbass hasent notice things in iraq are getting alot worse they called me back and i accepted un like your dumbass i dont like sitting down and let other people die for me when i am more then able to go back out there and fight again. i got any kinda of proof you need just come out and meet me and we'll see how much your mouth runs then. also one of the main reasons i got called back was they dont ahve time to train more soldiers let alone rangers who already have combat experiance. yes, i am in the 82nd ab 5th ranger we were a assigned to operate with the 505 and panther. after going through physicals out the ass both mental and in body i was declared fit to go back. its people like you that called the soldiers who came back from vietnam babykillers well instead of sitiing on your dumb fat ass go out enlist and help change things. you bitching to me about honnor but were is the honnor in complaining about me and whats going on in the world when your ass hasent done shit to change things all you do is run you mouth. you go out there were you dont know who are were the enemy is. you go watch your battle buddy go grab a kid to bring him out of fire and see him blow up. you dont even have the balls to shoot a duck. if you had any honnor you would name yourself and stop being a fucking coward. i hope when the draft comes in i see your ass at you training camp i will give u a real taste of what war is like. what did coffee plantation hire your ass to talk shit to stir shit up you sure go in there alot it seems what are you kissing the owners ass are something. when it all comes down to it regardless of what you think are how you run your mouth i have a job a to do and i will get it done. so fuck you and have a nice life

I've never called any soldier a babykiller..or killbot. Those are other folks on this list. And yeah, I still think you're making it up. And why should I tell you anything about me, when you've obviously just threatened me? And besides...I'm just asking YOU to account for stuff YOU"VE said publicly, to the media? So, you don't need to know who I am. Have a good life, too, wherever it is you're shipping off to. I doubt it's Iraq....

how am i not taking account every post i put on here is an answer to your questions added with a little of my mind. but it seems that all you can come back with is insults on my spelling and you keep repeating your self on how you u think i am fake we have all heard you. i dont think this forum is a big debate on weather you think i am a fake or not. the issue here is coffe plant if you dont like me so be it if you think ia m full of shit so be it. frankly ia m tired of discussing this with you. its pointless and taking up space that could be used to better discuss how we are going to resolve this coffe plant situation. oh i have a nother friend of mine that just recently got kicked off of coffe plant who presented a va card and they still through him off his story is similar to mine if any one from the ftcc can contact me and i can give you his number and he can fill you in. but i would like to take the rest of this time to thank the ftcc and all who helped with the coffee plant situation and supported. you all are the real ones who see things wrong and do what you can change them though many people might not say so but again thank you for doing what you can to make are homes a better and more equal place. and also to Elezabeth Vendabel who jumped right on it as soon as she heard what was going on thanks

I only criticized your spelling of "asshole" -- someone else criticized all your other misspellings. Yes, Jesse, I think you are full of shit. And as for your friend and his va card...exactly why did cp boot him? Don't try to tell me it was because he was a veteran, because I don't buy that. Was it because he was homeless, or maybe acting like an "asswhole?" More likely. Unless you made that story up, too. And I've never said that I don't think CP has discriminated. They do. I just do not buy your story. And I've also supported FTCC in their efforts. So, as for what "we" are going to do to solve the cp situation, well...you're shipping out at 4am next thursday, right?

And lobbing a bunch of insults and a few military terms and unit designations onto IMC does not prove anything.

So, bottom line. I'd like to see all troops in Iraq come home alive and well, and put an end to all that pointless killing. I oppose people being discriminated against because they are vets. I support the FTCC in their efforts to defend homeless rights. I think you are a champion bullshitter.
sincerely,
the "asswhole"

Skeptic, I couldn't have put it better myself.

I too support FTCC, and I regect and bullshit discrimination.

Whether or not Jesse is lying is irrelevant now- he's proved that he lacks basic communication skills, which is something I think a fukkin RANGER would need. This is not an insult to any troops other than Jesse, if he even is enlisted. Jesse, if you are, would you mind posting one or many of your commanding officers contact info on here for us- I need to write them and suggest that you get re-evaluated. It would be endangering to other US troops and all Iraqis to have you within gunshot range of any human life.

But we all know you're full of shit anyway, so it looks like the fun is over unless Jesse decided to say something else to educate us on his situation.

In what way are either of you supportive of the FTC? What have you tangibly done to help the FTC in its struggles? I somehow doubt that you have done anything real, besides being an annoyance. I think you are just using this forum to be a frustration to everyone that is trying to help the FTC and the homeless and discriminated of Tempe.

I also wasn't aware that there were very stringent academic requirments for military service. Is there a GPA requirement? I think you are just looking to make fun of people that are easy targets.

Yes. Being supportive does not mean being blindly supportive. I have attended FTCC events & passed out flyers & signed petitions.

I support the rights of the homeless, but don't make the mistake of sentimentalizing or romanticizing them -- thinking they're all just lil' smudgy-faced misunderstood angels. Predators & bullshit artists exist among them, too.

One problem here is that probably many IMCers think all soldiers are just dumbfuck triggerpullers. Not so. Some are, of course, but you'll also find dumbfuck peaceniks & anarchists, too. GPA requirements? At least a HS diploma or equivalent, and some army job assignements require more. The army also gives a vocational aptitude test, and to get into the rangers you've got to score way higher than the average enlistee. The rangers are a pretty elite bunch...and the fact that Jesse cannot even string a simple sentence together, much less comprehend others' questions & comments, throws out a big red flag, imho.

Was I in the army? Nope, but I know how to research for needed info. Oh...and I actually know people who've served in the army, etc -- something that's probably not true of most FTCC members.

If you're going to call somebody an "asswhole," then expect to be made fun of...

As far as I can tell, this conversation is no longer about FTCC directly. It's irrelevant whether or not I helped them in the past, I support them within and without.

Which is why I think this jewel of a ranger named Jesse should be thought out, somewhere, which maybe FTCC has already done. I'm just someone following a discussion here on Indymedia who's commenting on a seeming inconsistancy. I actually knew an army ranger very well, and I can tell you, thinking is an invaluable asset. Their brains are many times their only asset.. communication is *KEY* to success. Many times communicating(or miscommunicating) one word can determine very important things, life and death, strike or no strike.. etc....

Come on now, we're all reasonable people, what I'm saying isn't too hard to consider. I apologize if I'm simply ripping on a dumb soldier, if that's what he is. But what I am doing is suggesting, merely suggesting, that a pretty damn good way to infiltrate a movement, even one like FTCC, would be to act like the hurt birdie with a broken wing,.. a living martyr for the group to get behind. And look at the mess that's come from it- look at what a distraction it's become. Maybe Barb Carter set it up to fukk with FTCC<G>, maybe Jesse's just confused and looking for attention, maybe he's telling the truth. But the more I learn about him, the more things seem suspicious.

Since this thead has started, does Jesse still show up to protest at coffee plantation?

frankly ia m tired of this bs if you want to judge some one on how they right go ahead but befor i go if u all want to call me or sit down and talk with me go ahead here is my number 602-434-8884 it will only be on till thursday then it will be off stop hiding behind a computer and come out and talk to me. i have alot of shit out my apt that can prove my service i have my medals i have pictures of me when i was in iraq. if you all are so smart then why dont you call ft benning georgia and talk to my ex capt darrishaw pretty sure you all could find that on the web or stop bitching and come out and see me off if you want all the proof in the world and as for the the qalifications to become a ranger spelling is not one of them. yes verbal communication is good but the main factors in graduating ranger school are you determination apply the army values to ur life self control confidence. honnor duty respect intergerty loyalty. and understanding above the regular infantry that you are ave to push your self harder then any other soldier out there. for those of you who are outsiders looking in who have never been in the military you would not know any of the guidlines that make you able to be a ranger. one most infantry and sf units are there becouse they dident score high enough on their asfab for any other job. and other just choose that route despite of what they scored.
most infantry and sf people are not the brightest in the world but they have the most loyalty for their country w have to becouse are ussualy the first to die. three ranger school is tough and a person who spent most of their life in books couldent get past it despite the fact they graduated a nine week basic.(11b infantry basic is 14 weeks) in ranger scholl they mold you to be what they want you to be they want us to think they they think not question any order and make you able to take out any enemy on the field waether its a little kid pointinf=g a weapon at you are a enemy soldier. again you dont do much writing in any combat spec job unless you are an officer me at e 4 i folow orders i dont give them. i thinkwell and fast enough in combat and in life thus is why ia m stil alive today. i may not be the best speller but it doesent mean i cant write, or that i am not good at math computers programing are anything else so for you all to keep comming back and complaining about my spelling then dont read my post if my spelling bothers you you want a number to call to good friend of mine who know i was in iraq his name is bo whaly he works ina program to help kids who came out of cps 602 525 1444. again call me if you want real proof and i would be glad to sit with you this will be my last time on line for awhile so i wont see any responses but again if u want to talk befor i got call me i only have intil thursday morning. so i ahve taken every step to sow you all proof now its time for you to meet me half way. no need to be afraid that i will do something when i meet you i dont ahve time for that shit. we can all talk and in can bring any paper work you need and even pictures and for those of you to prideful to apologize after you are proving wrong i dont care ia dont know you and i am leaving. i just dont want to be the soldier that you pray dies over there or leave any leave any things negative for me to come back home to again

It's no wonder Iraq/Afgan are such fukkin disasters.
Jesse, I hope you get the chance to read this...

Fukk your loyalty to this country. This country is the largest terrorist organization in the world- congrats on being such a fukkin happy member. Fukk you for thinking you're anything but a hired murderer. You're not making any of us safer by killing some Iraqi- you're only making rich white men much, much richer. You're a hired thug who believes himself to be a hero in order to rationalize all the demented madness in your head.

And by the way, not being able to spell does, in fact, make you a very bad writer. If you had the mental capacity to comprehend that, maybe you wouldn't be such a fukkin pawn for terror and capitalism. Go away, have fun being a moving target in Iraq- I'm sure all the people profiting from your dumbass send you their wishes as well.

I hope this doesn't come from a rich or middle class anarchist that doesn't have the balls to admit to who they are. I think you are being a total jerk and a coward in making persoban digs about Jesse. I understand being against the war, but you guys seems to be being incredibly offensively classist and that is not cool. I think you need a more complex analysis of why people are forced to go into the military and why our militay has such a high percentage of people of color and the poor.

From another white middle class anarchist. One that I am sure is more respected than you are.

Rather, that was to "me."

People in this country aren't forced to joined the military. There is no draft. They are duped into it, and/or enticed into it. It is hard for me to respect someone who has opted to kill in exchange for material gain, whether they do it in the armed forces or in an armed robbery, whether it is for college tuition or for the contents of a cash register. The only difference is the sanction of the state.

The draft is being prepared in Congress and the re-instatement of the draft boards, right now. It will include women and there is no longer a college deferment; the borders to Canada have already been closed to potential draft dodgers. Age has been increased to 34. Does this group include you or anyone you know and love?

"Duped" is the correct word; however, in the generation now coming of age, they've been "programmed" into it, by TV, by video games, by schooling and revised my-country-right-or-wrong "history." There are very few real thinkers in the young generation right now. Those who show signs of not being controllable, are medicated, down to the very young; the under-six age group is the largest-growing population now being prescribed for Ritalin and anti-depressants.

Rather than cut each other down for differences of opinions, we need to be helping each other understand what's really going on in our country; this may mean helping people stop medicating themselves with alcohol and drugs. both prescribed and illegal.

Awareness is the first pre-requisite to changing things. We are stronger in a group of like-minded people than as nit-picking individuals hanging on to our differences and thinking our opinion is the only correct one. --MaryK

going back and reading some of these post, I find it hard to belive people out there really feel that way about their country. When I said I would fight for my country no matter what, I did not mean bush or our government. I meant for my home for my people even if they think I am some fake or full of shit.
I joined the army never thinking I would go to war.
I went for the money to be honest, and for school.
I am not some hero and dont claim to be. I just have alot of pride in my country and what it stands for.
As far as our government goes i can care less.
I did the coffee plant protest with the ftcc because of what they were doing was wrong.
homeless people or not vet or not if they are a paying customer then they deserve the right to not be judged.
regardless of past post on these page , and of people who agree or disagree with me or the ftcc,wont stop us from letting our voice be heard.
Regardless if coffee plant changes the way they act or theirstandards for serving people.
WE got the word out there about what they were doing.
Regardless if it changed anything or not.
people now know what goes on in coffe plant.
That alone is what i wanted to acomplish, eventually they will change.
I am in tucson for like three months so feel free to comment or email me @ jesheim@yahoo.com
stay strong
stay free

Jesse MacBeth was never in the military, let alone Special Forces and Ranger.

Today, the Army ran a check on Mr. MacBeth’s credentials. It turns out, not surprisingly to anybody with half a mind, that Mr. MacBeth has NO Army service record. Anywhere. Period. This is a direct quote given to me by Army spokesman John Boyce:

“Initial research by the U.S. Army Special Operations Command at Fort Bragg shows no Soldier with the name of Jesse Macbeth having ever been assigned to the Special Forces or the Army Rangers — which are, in fact, two separate disciplines. This appears to be some sort of hoax. No Soldier by that name at Fort Lewis to our knowledge, in the past, either. Of course, the line about “go into the Army or go to jail” is vintage TV script not heard since the 1960s. There are also numerous wear and appearance issues with the Soldier’s uniform — a mix of foreign uniforms with the sleeves rolled up like a Marine and a badly floppy tan beret worn like a pastry chef. Of course, the allegations of war crimes are vague, as are the awards the Soldier allegedly received.”

Wow. You folk got some craaaazy shit goin' on. Talkin' 'bout cRaZy!

Jesse's a total bullshit artist, which I thought was pretty apparent back in 2004. Just read my posts on this thread. It's a shame that Jesse's been able to spread his lies and cons further into the peace movement...

Jesse, you need to come clean. Tell the truth and apologize for your words and actions. The game is over for you and all the "I'll prove it to you" desperate talk won't help because you know you never have been and never will be a Ranger or SOF.

You played those who trusted you and wanted to believe you like a cheap piano. All the while Rangers and Special Operators all over the country waited for your video to propogate over the net before dropping the hammer on your sorry ass. You damaged the credibility of those who are against the war who so easily bought into your lies--because you knew that your lies are exactly what they wanted to hear. But, your five minutes of fame are over. Now, do the right thing for once in your life--tell the whole truth.

to skeptic, etc.
by this is like watching a train wrech Saturday, May. 27, 2006 at 1:34 PM

Skeptic, I'm glad you and the other person ("me") at least spoke up back then. I'm dumbfounded as to how anyone couldn't see through this little charade. It seems pretty obvious that anyone could, but chose to ignore it because he parroted the right talking points and claimed to have "been there" for the additional credibility. IVAW should be particularly shamed for their complicity in the fraud until it became obvious to everyone else and politically expedient for them to disown him.

To those of you complaining about the criticism of Jesse's illiteracy, you've gotta be kidding. That writing isn't even at average second-grade level! There's not a snowball's chance in hell he'd have made it through training (which, as we all know now, he didn't) at his level of intelligence or maturity, much less been an Army Ranger or Navy SEAL (which he claimed elsewhere!). You guys need to take a serious look at your own intellectual honesty, because you were all too quick to believe this kid, and believe that he is the kind you'd find in the military.

To the "asswholes" (my new favorite word) who think those in the military are deluded, duped, killbots: you are all fucking morons, and amusingly, you call yourselves "open-minded." You're about the most close-minded, irrational nutbags I can find just short of MacBeth himself. At least his psychosis is obvious and worthy of some small measure of pity. Yours, however, is laughable, juvenile, and astoundingly ignorant.

-- a REAL veteran

Jesse,
You're a fake and a fraud. I'm not sure of the axe you have to grind, but it's obvious that you see an opportunity to gain some sort of publicity through this and are taking advantage of it.
Your video shows how little you know about the Army and the various military services, considering the fact that your uniform is a complete disaster. Wrong t-shirt, wrong rank, sleeves rolled up wrong, wrong unit patch, etc.
You're not being called back into service, in fact, per your own DD-214, you were discharged with no further service necessary. You don't GET a dd-214 if you're going to get called back.
Bottom line, you're a fake, fraud, and scumbag in the eyes of anyone who actually believes in our military and our country. Posers like you merely show those of us that actually SERVED honorably how elite we are, in as much as so many wish they were like us.
Obviously you didn't realize how quickly stuff like this could possibly come back to bite you in the ass. Welcome to the real world you pansy, washout.
Try the Boy Scouts next, maybe you'll be able to hack that.

I came across this article by chance and I just wanted to assure all of you of two things; 1, the military is not reflected in this Jesse character and 2, thank you for exercising your right to free speech.